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  1. #11
    Member Dano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coolboarder View Post
    The most important factor when considering frame size is top tube length not seat tube so it may be right for your inside leg but not your body+arm length. You say you've set up the saddle so your knee angle is correct but have you set your saddle according to KOPS because that is what determines its forward position.?. You can then start dealing with the cockpit. So do the KOPS first then sit on your lever hoods and look down and see if the front hub is eclipsed by the bar top. If not then follow the guidance in my guide. 160 mm is already pretty extreme, you are in danger of compromising your position on the bike if it needs to go much longer.

    It could be if you're an odd shape as you say then you will struggle to find an off-the-peg frame and will need a custom built job.
    Thanks , I have it all set up as you say, I did the heel on the peddle , plumb line etc apart from I just guessed the bars position as I didn't know the correct position for them ,
    hopefully with the bars in correct position ..ie a bit more forward I will get the extra bit of reach I need .

  2. #12
    Senior Member coolboarder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dano View Post
    hopefully with the bars in correct position ..ie a bit more forward I will get the extra bit of reach I need .
    It is quite surprising how used one can get to a certain position with incremental changes until it fees normal but it is not because you don't go back to basics. When I got my Cannondale my reach felt too short compared to my previous bikes. So I got it set up with KOPS but because its a 54cm frame rather than 56 I had to add 10 cm to the stem to get the reach right and even then it felt short compared with other bikes although it was perfect according to the guidelines.

    I then changed the Campagnolo on my Thorn to the Dura Ace I swapped off the 'dale for eTap. I immediately felt too stretched because the Shimano lever hoods are about 1 cm longer, so using the new position on the 'dale which now feels totally dialed I had to not only lose 10 cm off the stem but about the same with shorter reach bars to achieve the same position.

    So a longer reach bar is another option if you run out of stem length albeit with a lot more hassle having to move levers and cables. However, they are becoming a thing of the past because all shifter hoods are growing in length to accommodate the extra gubbins.

    The moral however is: don't make any decisions until you have checked your bar position rather than just guessed it, you may actually find it is correct and you've just got used to the position on an older bike which was actually wrong.
    It doesn't matter how many times you fall down, its how times many you get back up that count.

  3. #13
    Member Dano's Avatar
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    I just set the bars properly using the KOPS method ,they needed to go quite a bit more forward to eclipse the hub and been for a quick spin round the block .
    fits me much better and I wasn't coming off the back of the seat ,feels right now

    thanks for your help @coolboarder .....will get a few hours in tomorrow and report back .

  4. #14
    Senior Member coolboarder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dano View Post
    I just set the bars properly using the KOPS method ,they needed to go quite a bit more forward to eclipse the hub
    You should set the saddle position using KOPS then adjust your reach to achieve eclipse. Interested to know how you managed to get your bars forward - have you got a longer stem?

    In the end though all we've discussed is only guidelines: you've got to be in a position that doesn't cause you discomfort and gives you maximum achievable power through your pedal stroke. Most time trialists would be perched forward of a KOPS position to achieve a more aerodynamic position; there's a trade off between power output/aerodynamics/comfort so it is not cast in stone
    Last edited by coolboarder; 23rd May 2017 at 9:28 AM.
    It doesn't matter how many times you fall down, its how times many you get back up that count.

  5. #15
    Member Dano's Avatar
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    When I say moved them forward I mean more pointing to the ground (if that makes sense ?)
    So originally when I rode with my hands resting on the top of the brakes I was edging off the back of the seat

    But now with the bars set properly the brakes are further forward so when I ride now I'm not edging off the back of the seat as it gives me that little bit of extra reach .

    Hope that makes some sense
    Last edited by Dano; 23rd May 2017 at 3:35 PM.

  6. #16
    Senior Member coolboarder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dano View Post
    When I say moved them forward I mean more pointing to the ground (if that makes sense ?)
    This is all very much personal choice but generally the bars should be set so the top of the bend is parallel to the ground and the lever hoods a virtual extension of that, and set so the brake levers are perpendicular. That should leave the bottom of the bends of the bars not parallel but the angle they point down at is variable depending on the design of the bars. With standard/anatomic bars this could be something like 30 degrees relative to the ground but with more modern compact short reach bars probably only 10-15. Some people seem to like the set up so the shifer hoos are poking up lime cow horns and others almost pointing down so their wrists have to be flexed to reach them - a bit like Sean Yates:

    Sean Yates 8-M.jpg
    It doesn't matter how many times you fall down, its how times many you get back up that count.

  7. #17
    Senior Member coolboarder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dano View Post
    When I say moved them forward I mean more pointing to the ground (if that makes sense ?)
    This is all very much personal choice but generally the bars should be set so the top of the bend is parallel to the ground and the lever hoods a virtual extension of that, and set so the brake levers are nearly perpendicular. That should leave the bottom of the bends of the bars not parallel but the angle they point down at is variable depending on the design of the bars. this could be something like 30 degrees relative to the ground but with more modern compact short reach bars probably only 10-15, like mine:

    Thorn2.jpg




    Some people seem to like the set up so the shifter hoods are poking up like cow horns and others almost pointing down so their wrists have to be flexed to reach them - a bit like Sean Yates:

    Sean Yates 8-M.jpg
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    It doesn't matter how many times you fall down, its how times many you get back up that count.

  8. #18
    Member Dano's Avatar
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    They are parallel to the floor now since I adjusted them yesterday ,before they were more up in the air so I think that what was giving me the problem.

    Been out today and it feels much better .
    14955667901420.jpg

  9. #19
    Member Dano's Avatar
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    Just to say the difference in comfort and performance since adjusting the riding position using kOPS has been immense,
    No more slipping of the back of the seat

  10. #20
    Senior Member coolboarder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dano View Post
    Just to say the difference in comfort and performance since adjusting the riding position using kOPS has been immense,
    Good, never say I didn't tell yous so.
    It doesn't matter how many times you fall down, its how times many you get back up that count.

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