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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by VLAD (the Friendly Vamp) View Post
    The knife thing is based on the fact that the Police can no longer stop you and search you as we did before, to find the things you should not have on you.

    You can thank the fooking Liberal do gooders for that and the other issues the Police now have with rising crime levels.

    To fight bad guys, you cant be a bloody
    What has changed exactly Vlad?

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boxhilljunkie View Post
    Look at the places where these these kids are stabbing each other....they are all shit hole parts of London ...every area's got places where you shouldn't go...
    im in london( just)...we don't get gangs round here....but then the kids of today don't like going out side...when I suggest going riding/ outside with my son, I get a look of 'why am I being punished'.

    my misses is always banging on about ...it's not safe here...let's move...but to where??......I quite like the Cayman Islands
    The Cayman Island are as flat as a pancake Boxie...the highest point of the islands is just over 40 m above sea level. How would you cope without Box Hill?

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by VLAD (the Friendly Vamp) View Post
    The knife thing is based on the fact that the Police can no longer stop you and search you as we did before, to find the things you should not have on you.

    You can thank the fooking Liberal do gooders for that and the other issues the Police now have with rising crime levels.

    To fight bad guys, you cant be a bloody
    Sorry, got to disagree there. Stop and search isn't the issue it's the drug crime. It used to be about so called turf wars but now it's all drugs. Stop and search would catch a few but tip of iceberg, need to clear out drug dealers and clean up deprived areas. Easy to say what to do, actually doing it another matter.
    All the gear and no idea.

  4. #24
    Senior Member VLAD (the Friendly Vamp)'s Avatar
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    Stop and search was not used to just find knives. Its used to find any evidence of crime - mostly drugs and then weapons and then objects used in crime (Jimmy bars and screwdrivers etc).

    If you stop the people carrying the drugs around and can stop people buying the drugs, by them fearing being caught with the drugs on them, then the drug problem will diminish. It wont go away, but will reduce.

    In Birmingham we had a big drugs problem and for years we stopped all the kids we knew were carrying and getting tooled up. We stopped them every day and night and they got arrested and sent to court and released and this went on and on.

    They eventually got naffed off with this and the amount of drugs going around and knives being carried reduced greatly. It took a lot of Officers to do it and a lot of time to deal with each case, but we had results.

    Yes they then found other ways to deliver the drugs, but the knife crime went down.

    They always had turf wars and drug wars between post codes and we also cracked down on this and sent them to prison and hounded them when they were on the streets. Our Nights shifts were so busy dealing with these kids, it was great.

    Then things changed.

    We had to stop using Stop and search as they all complained of Police Harassment and Stereotyping and racism.

    The numbers of Officers on the streets dropped and we were made to deal with other crimes as the Home Office wanted those figures to drop and more detections in those areas.

    You now have the drug wars and knife crime back again.

    Its because anyone can get a knife from a shop, They can be hidden anywhere on the body, they can be used by anyone without training, they are cheap and they are DEADLY.

    They now know that the Police will not stop and search them so its easy to use and get away with.

    They don't FEAR the Police anymore.

    Drugs is the problem and the knifes and violence used is as you say to grow the business. But if you nip the heads off, and reduce the people on the streets carrying it, you can diminish it.

    The only way to really stop DRUGS is to go all out, and the Country does not have the resources to deal with that at all, from Border Control to prevention and enforcement.

    We need to stop the kids carrying tools and stop the violence and get into the Kids Heads that this is wrong and this wont happen till the Country wakes up and Parents take more responsibility, the Schools take more responsibility and Local Councils take more responsibility and work with the Kids to Stop this shit happening.

    The Police can only try to enforce these things and we can try to educate the kids, but we are the Police and they hate us.

    I just wish that some of the kids I lectured, and spoke to, after arrest, took my advice and turned a corner, if only a little bit. I might have saved a few poor souls.
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  5. #25
    Senior Member The return of Marty Wild's Avatar
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    Legalise drugs, problem fixed..... next.
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  6. #26
    Senior Member ibbo68's Avatar
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    Sheffield is fast becoming the stabbing capital of the North.
    About 22 so far this year.
    Mainly gangs.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by VLAD (the Friendly Vamp) View Post
    Stop and search was not used to just find knives. Its used to find any evidence of crime - mostly drugs and then weapons and then objects used in crime (Jimmy bars and screwdrivers etc).

    If you stop the people carrying the drugs around and can stop people buying the drugs, by them fearing being caught with the drugs on them, then the drug problem will diminish. It wont go away, but will reduce.

    In Birmingham we had a big drugs problem and for years we stopped all the kids we knew were carrying and getting tooled up. We stopped them every day and night and they got arrested and sent to court and released and this went on and on.

    They eventually got naffed off with this and the amount of drugs going around and knives being carried reduced greatly. It took a lot of Officers to do it and a lot of time to deal with each case, but we had results.

    Yes they then found other ways to deliver the drugs, but the knife crime went down.

    They always had turf wars and drug wars between post codes and we also cracked down on this and sent them to prison and hounded them when they were on the streets. Our Nights shifts were so busy dealing with these kids, it was great.

    Then things changed.

    We had to stop using Stop and search as they all complained of Police Harassment and Stereotyping and racism.

    The numbers of Officers on the streets dropped and we were made to deal with other crimes as the Home Office wanted those figures to drop and more detections in those areas.

    You now have the drug wars and knife crime back again.

    Its because anyone can get a knife from a shop, They can be hidden anywhere on the body, they can be used by anyone without training, they are cheap and they are DEADLY.

    They now know that the Police will not stop and search them so its easy to use and get away with.

    They don't FEAR the Police anymore.

    Drugs is the problem and the knifes and violence used is as you say to grow the business. But if you nip the heads off, and reduce the people on the streets carrying it, you can diminish it.

    The only way to really stop DRUGS is to go all out, and the Country does not have the resources to deal with that at all, from Border Control to prevention and enforcement.

    We need to stop the kids carrying tools and stop the violence and get into the Kids Heads that this is wrong and this wont happen till the Country wakes up and Parents take more responsibility, the Schools take more responsibility and Local Councils take more responsibility and work with the Kids to Stop this shit happening.

    The Police can only try to enforce these things and we can try to educate the kids, but we are the Police and they hate us.

    I just wish that some of the kids I lectured, and spoke to, after arrest, took my advice and turned a corner, if only a little bit. I might have saved a few poor souls.
    I think your initial comment about knife crime being due to stop and search changes as a result of liberal do gooders is a bit of a straw man Vlad. It's also worth pointing out that the most recent changes to stop and search were introduced by a Conservative government.

    Police still have stop and search powers, and they are still used under three acts of law which includes if the police have reasonable grounds to suspect someone is carrying drugs and/or weapons.

    Personally, I have no issue with any limits to its use based on ethnicity. I'd be pretty miffed if I was regularly stopped and searched based on the colour of my skin. If the police has reasonable grounds to suspect someone is carrying or doing something illegal, that is absolutely fair enough.

    Besides, there doesn't really seem to be much compelling evidence to show that stop and search is effective in reducing knife crime. The government published a paper earlier this year which acknowledged a rise in gun, knife and homicides in a period when stop and search rates had fallen, but it also pointed out that there have been periods in the past when knife crime has fallen which coincided with a fall in stop and search rates in 2010-11 and 2013-14.

    The College of Policing also published a study which showed that higher rates of stop and search under Sections One of the PACE 1984 Act, Section 60 of the CJPOA 1994 and Sections 44/47a of the Terrorism Act 2000 only led to slightly lower rates of crime.

    So it seems stop and search may not be entirely efficient anyway.

    I think they're definitely useful though, and should continue to be used if the police have reasonable grounds. Targeting people arbitrarily is clearly wrong, as we're then not far away from rounding people up for internment. Our society and our way of life is built around certain freedoms and protections...this also goes back to the Poppy thread. Many people lost their lives so we don't live in a society where the rule of law is used to persecute based on beliefs or skin colour.

    Personally, I think the bigger and more important issue is the lack of resources available to the police. There just isn't enough personnel, both on the streets and investigating crimes, plus there's budget issues.

    Public services are stretched to near breaking point. All the emergency services are suffering due to resource issues. We have Ambulance crews spending vast amount of times dealing with mental health issues, as do the police. Fire crews are overstretched. Mental health services clearly cannot cope and if anything, elected liberals in parliament are trying to improve welfare services in order to improve the situation for many people, as well as ease the burden on the emergency services and allow them to do what they were set up to do.

  8. #28
    Senior Member coolboarder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muffin View Post
    Yes the knife crime issue, unbelievable. WTF is going on, I'm soooo glad I live way out west and not in London or big city. I'd fear for my kids.
    You perhaps forget just how big London is, the rate of violent crime per head of population is probably no higher than your local village which I'm sure is not devoid of a few yobs. As Boxie says the stabbings/violent crime are all in shithole places and internecine amongst gangs and their associated low life/addicts. Those killed in random attacks or as unintended collateral damage are no more than any other urban area and vanishingly rare. Although I live just across the border in South Bucks my practice is in west Drayton which is in LB of Hillingdon which has it sink estates and there was a stabbing at the West Drayton station a few weeks ago. Neither this nor the stabbings in London would make me think even once about not going out. Its a bit like people who won't go into town after the terrorist attacks - the terrorists have won if we are frightened and give into them.
    Last edited by coolboarder; 8th November 2018 at 3:54 PM.
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  9. #29
    Senior Member The return of Marty Wild's Avatar
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    Good points from Nick and CB.
    "Iím glad you asked me twice, you see I am a bilingual, Iím a bilingual illiterateÖ I canít read in two languages."

  10. #30
    Senior Member VLAD (the Friendly Vamp)'s Avatar
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    Nick, Yes the use of Police stop and search is still used - but nowdays you have to be limited on the number and type of searches you can use.

    In the yewars past I used to stop all the known youths that are involved in crime - this was known as I had arrested them before or other officers had - we had no cause to just stop normal people on the street on search them, we knew they were not committing crime.

    We purposefully target specific people, not by their skin colour, race or religion, but on the fact that they were known SHITS that committed burglary, robbery and knife crime.

    They then went to the papers to say that they were being targeted due to the colour of their skin - this was crap as it happened to be most of the black lads on the estate that were committing the crimes, the few white lads were also targeted by us.

    Then we had the Asians doing fraud and driving nicked cars - so we targeted them and then they complained.

    The liberal do gooders then said that we were specifically targeting them due to the colour of their skin - Crap - we targeted them as they were doing the crimes.

    I have worked and lived in Birmingham for years and have never been stopped and searched. Neither have any members of my family or friends.

    The Police don't just stop joe public and search them - we know what we are doing and who we need to stop - its called intelligence and past behaviour - a Leopard does not change its spots - except for a very rare case.

    The lack of the full use of stop and search as we used to have it and the increased lack of funding and loss of personnel and the drive by Government to hit targets in other areas of crime - like DV and Child cases has driven the Police to a point where the normal policing has stretched to a point where it had broken the string and was dangling in empty space.

    This was one of the reasons I left the job - we could not do what we wanted - and serve the public and prevent crime - we just investigated what we could get a result from the rest was filed as undetected - just to make the figures hit the marks.

    I was proud to be a good bobby and the 500+ arrests I had and over 450 traffic process files I sent to the courts was a good job done.

    There were also the many people I issued words of wisdom to that did not get arrested and or sent to court.

    But

    In the end - the job was unmanageable and I lost my faith in the Judicial system and so I retired.

    The Fault lies with all Government as it started under Blair and then May - but the Country won't change as people are scared of what is said in social media and how they look as they are judged by the many sitting on their arses typing on a keyboard - much like I am now.
    "Life is too short to have anything but delusional notions about yourself."
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    God - why am I so great !!!


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